?

Log in

No account? Create an account
Anthropologist Community
When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite 
11th-Dec-2009 10:47 am
Psyche
Contrary to myth, Christianity's concept of marriage has not been set in stone since the days of Christ, but has constantly evolved as a concept and ritual. Prof. John Boswell, the late Chairman of Yale University’s history department, discovered that in addition to heterosexual marriage ceremonies in ancient Christian church liturgical documents, there were also ceremonies called the "Office of Same-Sex Union" (10th and 11th century), and the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).

These church rites had all the symbols of a heterosexual marriage: the whole community gathered in a church, a blessing of the couple before the altar was conducted with their right hands joined, holy vows were exchanged, a priest officiatied in the taking of the Eucharist and a wedding feast for the guests was celebrated afterwards. These elements all appear in contemporary illustrations of the holy union of the Byzantine Warrior-Emperor, Basil the First (867-886 CE) and his companion John.

Original Article or Read more...Collapse )
Comments 
12th-May-2012 08:17 am (UTC)
Thanks for posting this!
12th-May-2012 02:57 pm (UTC)
The article link goes to a 404 error....but this is extremely interesting to me. Any chance the article exsists elsewhere?
12th-May-2012 04:01 pm (UTC)
I think this article's premise is based on one huge fallacy. The fact that one can find differences in practice throughout history in no way means that those were legitimate practices under that particular ideology. That would be like saying modern Darwinists are wrong for embracing altruism because their ideology was used to support eugenics and Social Darwinism in the past. It seems fairly clear that the orthodox Christian doctrine that is set in stone is anti-gay marriage. Deviations by certain groups in certain times may make an interesting religious and sociological study, but it in no way deteriorates a notion of an orthodox position.
13th-May-2012 12:01 am (UTC)
Anyone with any level of intellectual prowess or education knows that this is a farce. That moron pretend anthropologist John Boswell has been debunked countless times, so much so, that respected academia no longer recognizes him as a fellow academic. The only folks who continue to revel in his revisionist ignorance are the same folks who make up the ranks of the militant angry homosexuals and their sympathizers. Anyone who would actually put any credence into anything which comes from this fool is a fool themselves. That image he refers to in Kiev exists, but it has NEVER been empirically proved as to what it is. In all probability it is most assuredly portraying two saints who were martyred at the same time and place and were at one time known for working in unison. That would be my take on it. Boswell is truly an idiot.
12th-May-2012 08:33 pm (UTC)
I see a lot of people talking about the bible, but it seems people who adhere to this bible don't know it's history. First of all, it's an anthology of writings that were selected out of hundred of thousands of documents; second, it was assembled nearly 400 years after the undocumented crucifixion of Jesus (I say undocumented because there's nothing in the Roman records concerning this execution, and Romans were mighty good record keepers). In fact, what constitutes the christian bible has changed quite a bit since the very first one appears in the historical record in the 4th century. So please, stop talking about the christian bible like its an authoritative document. Quite frankly, it has all the authoritative validity as the Twilight Series, only without a decent narrative or plot.
12th-May-2012 10:57 pm (UTC)
Great Post! You are so right! Most of these virulent, right wing Christians know nothing about bible other than the rubbish they are told to believe. They are completely ignorant as to the origins of the Bible or the history of mankind in the mideast. They are likewise misguided in the knowledge and understanding of American history. It's truely pathetic. I heard a great quote the other day that you might appreciate.
"The masses think religion is true.
The wise know religion is false.
And the powerful find religion to be useful."
12th-May-2012 08:40 pm (UTC)
Sigh. The problem is that Boswell's use of sources is questionable and many of his 'findings' questioned rigorously by other scholars. Also, Gerald of Wales is hardly a reliable source, particularly where Ireland is concerned since he was trying to make it look like a particularly immoral place

I would also greatly question the statement that homophobic writings didn't appear til the 14th century. I know of several sources that do (for example the Complaint of Nature of Alain de Lille), not to mention the prohibitions in Canon Law and also in the writings of the Church Fathers such as Augustine and later theologians such as Thomas Aquinas.

‎(sorry for being a pesky medievalist, but sex and gender in the Middle Ages is kind of my area of research, even though as a lesbian I would love all of the above to be true...)
14th-May-2012 01:34 am (UTC)
Thank you for your honesty.
12th-May-2012 10:40 pm (UTC)
2nd Epistle to Lloyd (Becker)
I'm posting this reply to you here in case you deleted it earlier from your threat.

Lloyd, just in case you do read this prior to deleting in a fit of pharisaic frenzy I have to say that I'm most impressed that you admitted to my correcting you about anything!
Now let me correct you further, I am not an atheist. I am an ordained minister in the Ministry of Salvation Church, the headquarters of which are in Chula Vista, CA. My calling has taken me to aid the spiritual needs of the poor in the Caribbean islands of Puerto Rico, St. Martin and Anguilla.
Neither am I a liberal. My political views, while unimportant in the eyes of the Lord (as Jesus said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Render unto the Lord what is the Lord's) I'd describe myself as a libertarian and have great respect for Ron Paul. But stereotyping atheists and liberals as the ones most likely to use offending epithets or resort to name-calling is very telling. When Jesus threw the moneylenders out of the temple, do you think he said "Golly, gosh, gee whiz! You naughty boys get a big thumbs down!"?
No, he angrily screamed and shouted at these odious thugs and loan-sharks. This was a tough, violent, dangerous time in history and these were tough, violent, dangerous individuals. Yet Jesus physically assaulted them, smashed their tables, scattered their coinage, and hurled them out of the temple. I'm sure the actual words that Jesus spoke as he did all this was the Aramaic equivalent of the language one might hear in a Martin Scorsese film. With all that said Lloyd, you're still a fucking idiot. Whoops! As Britney Spears said, I did it again.
Most Sincerely,
Peter V. Newman
12th-May-2012 11:59 pm (UTC)
Anyone with any level of intellectual prowess or education knows that this is a farce. That moron pretend anthropologist John Boswell has been debunked countless times, so much so, that respected academia no longer recognizes him as a fellow academic. The only folks who continue to revel in his revisionist ignorance are the same folks who make up the ranks of the militant angry homosexuals and their sympathizers. Anyone who would actually put any credence into anything which comes from this fool is a fool themselves. That image he refers to in Kiev exists, but it has NEVER been empirically proved as to what it is. In all probability it is most assuredly portraying two saints who were martyred at the same time and place and were at one time known for working in unison. That would be my take on it. Boswel is truly an idiot.
13th-May-2012 11:55 am (UTC)
Joe Vadis, you can cut and re-past your post as many times as you like, but it won't make your frothy argument any stronger or more rational.
13th-May-2012 01:03 am (UTC)
Thanks for taking the time to post this most fascinating piece of history for ALL to read! Anyone having any additional historical references on this topic, please do not hold them back....post them for everyone to see and hopefully the collective consciousness will resonate and rise and the truth will finally set all good people free!
4th-Jan-2013 04:35 am (UTC)
This article as well as the evidence it is based on is false... Here is a link explaining everything. Please take a minute to read and watch the video.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/was-same-sex-marriage-a-christian-rite
13th-May-2012 03:37 am (UTC)
If one believes in love at all, and if one believes in God at all.. how can it not be perceived as a "God given" love?
13th-May-2012 11:45 am (UTC)
In response to this article, Philip C. posted, "Do you notice that none of the sources of this piece are biblical? . . . The Bible should be our only reference."

In response to this I would like to share a quote attributed to an 18th Century British Theologian, Herbert Spencer, "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

Rather than bury our heads in the sand like a herd of frightened ostriches, and refusing to consider the vastness of evidence available to us, why not have a look? I believe the truth shall set us free so I have to wonder why anyone would be afraid to look at other evidence. I don't believe in a God so vengeful as to strike us down for free thinking. I feel sorry for anyone who does.

Living together really doesn't have to be so difficult. A little tolerance would go a long way toward reducing the misery index on planet Earth.
14th-May-2012 01:36 am (UTC)
The Bible is all true but not all truth is in the Bible. That being said, check out www.narth.com. NARTH is the National Association for the Research and Treatment of Homosexuality. It is a non-biased, non-Christian organization. I don't expect that I'll read anything that these professional clinicians have to say or write about their conclusions here.
13th-May-2012 11:54 am (UTC)
Joe Vadis, you can cut and re-past your post as many times as you like, but it won't make your frothy argument any stronger or more rational.
13th-May-2012 01:13 pm (UTC)
Thank you, open the vaults of the Vatican and let the truth be known
13th-May-2012 03:25 pm (UTC)
Unfortunately, it appears that the link to the original article is broken. I'd like to actually see some documented sources, so that your position is less assailable by the "but the Bible says it's wrong" crowd.
4th-Jan-2013 04:36 am (UTC)
This article as well as the evidence it is based on is false... Here is a link explaining everything. Please take a minute to read and watch the video.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/was-same-sex-marriage-a-christian-rite
13th-May-2012 05:27 pm (UTC)
Why isn't the original article still linked to this article? This is a very interesting piece of writing that I would like to believe is true. I get concerned when there are no references attached to it. I know there is MUCH twisted thinking in many people today and that Christ didn't make up the rules that the world's nut jobs blast all over the air waves. It does my heart good to read articles like this especially when there are documented references to back up what the writer is saying. I'd share this article if there were references.
13th-May-2012 06:29 pm (UTC)
Many heathen practices were incorporated into the early Christian church and indeed remain there today in Roman Catholicism. These heathen practices, including homosexuality, were and are condemned in scripture. Just because early churches erroneously practiced these things does not make them right. God is clear on this matter. Homosexuality is unnatural and an abomination to God. This is repeated throughout the Old and New Testaments.

However, it is important to note that God loves homosexuals. He hates homosexuality. Big difference. Just like adulterers, fornicators, murders, etc., God only asks that the sinner come to Him for grace and forgiveness and give up their sin. For illustrations of this, read John 8 (the woman caught in adultery) and John 4 (Jesus meets a Samarian woman at the well).
14th-May-2012 01:31 am (UTC)
As a follow-up, from a clinical perspective, check out www.narth.com. NARTH is the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality. Read the research from non-biased, non-Christian clinicians. Homosexuality is not genetic. No one is born homosexual. Homosexuality is a choice just like any other sin. Homosexuality was listed in the Diagnostic & Statistics Manual (or DSM for short) until 1986 when it was removed as a psychiatric disorder. Homosexuality is a treatable, psychiatric disorder that many seek treatment for. I know several former homosexuals who sought treatment and healing for their homosexuality. Through therapy they were able to be finally freed from their homosexual tendencies. They live a heterosexual life now but battle their attraction to the same sex.

I am a recovered pornography addict. I treat addicts. What I did in my addiction is no better (or worse) than that of what any gay or lesbian is doing as far as God is concerned. I committed adultery, fornication and idolatry on a daily basis for years. I have been in recovery from my addiction for 12 years now but I will always struggle with the temptation to use pornography. Sin is sin. There is no diifference. To say that homosexuality is OK is equal to saying that pedophilism is OK...that murder is OK. I use those examples because, as far as our society is concerned, fornication and adultery are accepted norms. Everyone does it so that makes it OK.

This nation has been brainwashed by the Gay Agenda and their highly successful marketing campaign to make homosexuality acceptable and normal. Prior to their marketing campaign, homosexuality was unacceptable and even illegal in this country and in most of the civilized nations of the world. Wake up people! Behind the scenes pedophiles are organizing and using the very same marketing plan that they pro-homosexual agenda has so successfully used. They want pedophilism removed from the DSM, for it to be looked at simply "a lifestyle choice" and not a pervesion, crime or psychiatric problem. Think it won't ever happen in your lifetime?
Last week the a New York judged ruled that looking at child porn on the Internet is not a crime.

It wasn't that long ago when I thought I'd never see the day when this nation accepted homosexuality and same-sex marriage. Now, if you don't accept that viewpoint and morality you are viewed as immoral and intolerant. Just give it another 40 or so years and pedophilism will be accepted as simply an alternate lifestyle.
Page 9 of 11
<<[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] >>
This page was loaded Nov 14th 2019, 11:05 am GMT.