?

Log in

No account? Create an account
Anthropologist Community
When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite 
11th-Dec-2009 10:47 am
Psyche
Contrary to myth, Christianity's concept of marriage has not been set in stone since the days of Christ, but has constantly evolved as a concept and ritual. Prof. John Boswell, the late Chairman of Yale University’s history department, discovered that in addition to heterosexual marriage ceremonies in ancient Christian church liturgical documents, there were also ceremonies called the "Office of Same-Sex Union" (10th and 11th century), and the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).

These church rites had all the symbols of a heterosexual marriage: the whole community gathered in a church, a blessing of the couple before the altar was conducted with their right hands joined, holy vows were exchanged, a priest officiatied in the taking of the Eucharist and a wedding feast for the guests was celebrated afterwards. These elements all appear in contemporary illustrations of the holy union of the Byzantine Warrior-Emperor, Basil the First (867-886 CE) and his companion John.

Original Article or Read more...Collapse )
Comments 
11th-May-2012 03:41 pm (UTC)
It's false! Kiev doesn't have such icon. The icon figures martyr's enunciation that doesn't mean marriage between gays.
11th-May-2012 04:07 pm (UTC)
Very interesting. I went and looked up that picture, and you've got to use some imagination, unorthodox imagery, and cock your head a little to the left in order to see this icon as a wedding and not simply as two saints related by experience and with Christ as their Lord.

Also, that word, "erestai" is a word that is used in the context of lovers in a pederasty arrangement. A Man-Boy lover arrangement common in the Greek military. So, the cited written source would actually be promoting the fact that this pair were engaged in pederasty.

If that were true, and if it were true that this icon were depicting a marriage between the two, then the church actually sanctioned man-boy marriages.

The far better interpretation of this icon is that which I stated above - these are two saints related by experience and sharing Christ as their Lord.

Now, if it were true that isolated churches sanctioned same-sex marriage in history, and I don't have the knowledge to refute that, then the argument is that what the church has done in the past is proof of good theology then as compared to bad theology now. But that argument doesn't vary itself out very well. If this were the case, then Monism, Arianism, Gnosticism, and even Holy Wars against Muslims would be proper expressions of the Christian faith. I just can't go there. Like I said, its an interesting article, but if the writer intended to support Church-sanctioned same-sex marriage through this evidence, his arguments are non-cogent and misinformed.
11th-May-2012 04:31 pm (UTC)
why are all you christians i use the term loosely on a pagan page,answer me one of you ,nope,well as i have asked thrice i won't ask anymore ,dam you .bollox this is
11th-May-2012 04:51 pm (UTC)
The link to the original article is broken and elicited a "404." I would very much like to see the original article so I will go looking for it.

Thanks SO much for bringing this to light.

(Deleted comment)
11th-May-2012 05:39 pm (UTC)
"in addition to heterosexual marriage ceremonies in ancient Christian church liturgical documents, there were also ceremonies called the "Office of Same-Sex Union" (10th and 11th century), and the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).

Other than the Anthropologist (a psychologist for dead people), it seems that church official documents clearly refer to "Unions" and "Unifying", such as a "Civil Union".

What is it that we are fighting for Equal Rights or a Word on a Piece of Paper? A Civil Union should be accepted if 100% of all/common spousal rights are given and applied to those involved in a "Civil Union"

If the issue is just a Word, then let the certificate read "Gay Marriage", and then have 100% of all/common spousal rights are given and applied to those involved in the "Gay Marriage"

A certificate that reads either "Gay Marriage" or "Civil Union" would take this issue and speed it to completion. Then Gay Americans could be joined together legally, in love and have exactly the mirror image set of rights.

If this is just over a word on a piece of paper and NOT RIGHTS then I would think this is a misguided goal. We could get the ability to have a Gay Marriage, get the same recognized rights and move forward with our lives, otherwise this will drag on for years to come. Let's stop the ugliness and hatred, and just be what we are, different and unique. Let us show others that we will not lower ourselves to their level.

Gay people are not called Straight and Straight people are not called Gay. Have a country that recognizes "Gay Marriage" and "Marriage" as separate and EQUAL Civil Status.
13th-May-2012 12:52 am (UTC)
The last time the phrase "Separate but equal" was used by a country, it became a way to justify discrimination to a whole bunch of people. How about, instead of saying "Gay Marriage" and "Straight Marriage", we should just call it Marriage.
11th-May-2012 05:53 pm (UTC)
what an interesting article! I had no idea. I need to show this to my parents, who are incredibly closed-minded on the topic because of their "faith". My husband and I are very big proponents for marriage equality and our parents are all very religious. There have been many a heated debates because we are so much more socially liberal than they are. This is some great information to help fight against religious zealots.
11th-May-2012 08:40 pm (UTC)
But is sadly based on what seems to be a highly reaching text by an individual seeking to advance a point and not actual historical truths. Peruse this article also for some perspective and to enrich your view of as many sides of the discussion as possible.

leaderu dot com backslash ftissues backslash ft9411 backslash darling dot html
11th-May-2012 06:06 pm (UTC)
Hilariously dishonest. Catholicism is not Christianity... Catholicism is a politicised corruption of a variant of the followers of Christ generations after Christ's death. Catholicism has a history of political power, political corruption, martyrdom, terrorism, and assorted OTHER ugly things as well, all well documented, and in fact, a giant part of european (and other) history.

To now look into Catholicism and use it to define Christianity, is both dishonest, and utterly illogical. Christianity was established by a man in the Bible called Jesus, who was of Biblical ( Jewish ) descent, and was born of a virgin, and was in harmony with the Jewish religion until He was rejected by the religious leaders of his His day. He was the fulfillment of the Jewish religion, but since it rejected Him, those who accepted Him as God, come to earth to die for sin, those who followed Him became Christians, rather than the now-fulfilled religion of the Israelites of His day.

But I suppose this is what happens when people who are ignorant of both Jewish history and the genesis of Christianity attempt to influence politics today using religion.

Edited at 2012-05-11 06:07 pm (UTC)
11th-May-2012 09:18 pm (UTC)
Actually the The Catholic Church became the first church when Christ/Yeshua gave the keys to Saint Peter, the founder of the Catholic church! He was also one of the 12 apostles. You can Google this information.

The Catholic Church became corrupt because of Emperor Constantine when he decided to mix Christianity with Paganism.

I however agree with everything else that you've stated!!!
11th-May-2012 06:41 pm (UTC)
The link the original article doesn't work. I would really like to see the original.
11th-May-2012 09:22 pm (UTC)
So would I.
11th-May-2012 06:53 pm (UTC)
I find it slightly amusing that the pro-lgbt posters here have no understanding of how Catholic or Orthodox theology advances, how it developed, or what is considered important. While purportedly being beacons of understanding, these individuals are not trying to understand even the basics of Christian theology (and make no mistake - this article attempts to delve into it). While the Bible is certainly one of the corner stones of Christianity, the texts written by the Church fathers, popes, and saints form an equally important (if not more) body of works from which to understand Christianity. The author is advancing shoddy scholarship, and is so completely wrong it is pitiful. This article is about the Christianity's understanding of marriage - with regards to it's own practices & history - not to it's application in the secular realm.
12th-May-2012 01:56 am (UTC)
"I find it slightly amusing that the pro-lgbt posters here have no understanding of how Catholic or Orthodox theology advances, how it developed, or what is considered important...."

And the Roman church decided that discriminating against women and oppressing gay people were more important than leading the battle for social justice and making the world a better place. Being on the side of oppressive governments and, in fact, helping them to become more oppressive, looked like being far more profitable for them than being on the side of the poor and the oppressed would ever have been. They were probably right about that.

That's my take on Christian theology.
11th-May-2012 07:09 pm (UTC)
So my question would have to be ..why did these pro same sex marriage views change, and why?
13th-May-2012 04:02 am (UTC)
Well they never really existed in the first place.
11th-May-2012 07:11 pm (UTC)
Progressive thought becomes common knowledge once everyone catches up. Such is the fate of the current "controversial" comments by our President. Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
11th-May-2012 07:30 pm (UTC)
Progressive thought becomes "common knowledge" because the media almost unanimously declares it so. And, since most people are followers, "common knowledge" is often "commonly held falsehood".
11th-May-2012 07:29 pm (UTC)
brilliant x
11th-May-2012 07:43 pm (UTC)
Link to article no longer works. Is it possible to update this with a new, working link?
11th-May-2012 09:19 pm (UTC)
The user who posted this article is no longer active on Livejournal since 2010.
11th-May-2012 08:09 pm (UTC)
thank you for posting this was really interesting specially for those people living with same sex.
Page 7 of 11
<<[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] >>
This page was loaded Nov 15th 2019, 2:53 pm GMT.